Let me preface this with I believe in Evolution just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted. Much of what follows is merely an attempt to myself in other's shoes or head-space, and figure out why we all (humanity) disagree so strongly about such basic concepts.
The black squirrel, and mutations of it's ilk, will probably never convince creationists - and the rationale of why it doesn't sway them is actually pretty justified. The black squirrel isn't a new species. It's just a grey squirrel, with a new dominant gene that gives it a different fur color and increased testosterone. It still interbreeds with grey squirrels, and is currently winning out in the sexual competition arena.
That does prove (or at least stongly support) Natural Selection, but not Evolution. Natural Selection is a prime motivator in Darwinian Evolution, but NS could also exist and only lead to familial evolution. That's evolution with a small "e" - it's the same logic that dictates children look something like their parents. I've yet to meet a creationist who argues against that logic. Instead, they argue against large-scale Evolution - the change from one species to another.
One of the causes of the rift in thought between Evolutionists and Creationists is the fact that it would take thousands of generations for little changes like that Squirrel example to accumulate to such an extent that an entirely new species existed. Many Creationists think the world is only a few thousand years old. If that were the case, there'd be no way an organism as complex as Humanity could evolve up from single-celled life. So, if you assume a 5,000 year old Earth, then you're correct in assuming that evolution couldn't possibly result in Evolution in that time.
That 5,000 year date the church defends strikes me as preposterous, and it's evidenced against by not just carbon-dating, but also geologic process, the red-shifting of light from other stars, and fields of history such as egyptology. But if you take it as true, then you get the above "no time for Evolution" conclusion.
And really, how can I argue against it? If you believe the Pope is infallible, or that the Prophets were inspired directly by God, then the arguments of someone such as myself (who has no great works of magic or statesmanship or even science on his resume) will seem pretty trivial.
But here's the second argument that Creationists have at their disposal, and this one is even harder to argue against (at least, unless my understanding of biology is fundamentally flawed) - variations in the number of chromosomes. If you grab a hundred species at random from throughout the animal kingdom, you'll get several different chromosome counts. In order for chromosomes to shift like that, you need a pretty massive mutation. Most such mutations in nature are fatal. Those that aren't, typically result in a mutated offspring that is either sterile or just can't reproduce with an unmutated partner. Following that logic, in order for a new species to have a different number of chromosomes, you'd need at least two members in a region, one of each gender, to get roughly the same mutation yet survive to reproduce with each other.
Even if that occurred, you'd have massive genetic bottlenecking which wouldn't be likely to result in the continued health and survival of the new species. So effectively, you'd need several hundred members of the species to spontaneously develop a drastic but non-fatal mutation and then keep reproducing. Off the top of my head, it's hard to think of anything that would result in that, except perhaps overt genetic manipulation by an outside hand.
That's where Creationists assume God must be the designer. But there are other possibilities. Things that reproduce asexually could (and d0) Evolve without outside forces requiring a simultaneous identical mutation amongst multiple members of the original species. A single organism could drastically mutate, and if it survived, pass that mutation on asexually. So viruses and bacteria can be shown to Evolve without an outside hand, as evidenced by SARS, AIDS and Ebola. Some viruses have the ability to alter the DNA of creatures they infect. Thus it's possible that some prehistoric retrovirus was the cause of most large-scale chromosomal shifts. A virus could evolve to cause a specific mutation to affect an entire generation of newborns. It's a bit of a stretch, but not impossible. Such a virus could have since died off, leaving us with little conclusive evidence of how the big changes happened.
Even if you do assume that some higher power (not merely a virus) must have been behind the diversification of species, there's little reason to assume that any single popular God is the right one. Every holybook I've read includes at least one statement that can be proven false or at least grossly oversimplified - thus putting the infallability of the authors into question. But such flaws don't necessarily prove the non-existence of any given God, they just demonstrate the human nature of it's chief followers. Some godlike intelligence - be that Jehovah, Gaia, Eris, or something we have yet to correctly identify - could be guiding the course of the universe. Such an intelligence could even be using Evolution as it's tool to do so - YHWH could well have created Evolution as his method of Creation.
Or we could all be effectively cells in a self-aware universe intuitively guiding it's own Evolution - that's my favorite way to look at it.
For that matter, the Intelligent Designer could be literal. We could be the end product of intentional and overt genetic manipulation by alien Greys. Knowing nothing of their planet(s?), we can't rule out Evolution occurring there naturally (they could be asexual, or there could be factors there that are absent on Earth), and then having been reverse-engineered here for unknown motives. The earth could be a petri dish, a zoo, or a farm.
I suppose it could even be a giant analog super-computer, covertly run by mice and observed cautiously by dolphins. :) Or I could be a Cartesian brain in a jar.
Point being, even something concrete like Black Squirrels is unlikely to ever convince die-hard Creationists that Evolution exists. Chances are, we'll never all see eye-to-eye on this. There's at least 3 ways to proceed from there.
- We can continue to hate and war amongst ourselves - sadly, this is the most common historical path taken by Religions and Nations.
- We can mock and insult each other - like Bill Mahrer and Richard Dawkins like to do to the Religious communities.
- We can try to be understanding and tolerant of those who view the universe through a different lens.
15 comments:
Can we mock and insult maybe even yell "stupid" behind their back and then agree to disagree?
Isn't the appearance of a new dominant gene the very definition of evolution? It's not like there's some distinct line that you must cross in order to define a new species. It just takes enough of these little changes to reach a subjective consensus.
Isn't the appearance of a new dominant gene the very definition of evolution?
Not as far as the Religious Right is concerned. If that were the case, Evolution would have been proved, case closed, the the moment the first disease became drug-resistant.
Instead, some creationists take drug-resistant germs as evidence AGAINST evolution. That puzzled the crap out of me until I figured out they weren't seeing the doctors (and antibiotics) as the equivalent of natural selection, they were seeing them as playing God.
If you're feeling like a bit of self-inflicted torture, go to any of the big Creationist / Intelligent Design (or even Darwinian Evolution) sites, and read the flamewars in their guestbooks and forums.
The folks who stand most steadfastly against Evolution do so on 3 principles: 1) The Earth isn't old enough for mankind to have evolved, as they see it. 2) Large-scale "new species"-level mutations are typically terminal. 3) Evolution contradicts the bible.
1 is contradicted by science, but then 1 and 3 involve an unreconcilable divide. If you take the bible as the highest truth, then anything else that contradicts it must be false. That's a dangerous road to go down, and it's hard not to feel all self-important when arguing for or against it.
Principle #2 is more interesting to me. My scientific knowledge doesn't have anything that can refute it - but I'm not a biologist by profession.
Now if it was that something about being a kept man was contradicting the bible, then perhaps I'd have the first-hand know-how to argue against it.
Can we mock and insult maybe even yell "stupid" behind their back and then agree to disagree?
I suspect you will, regardless of what advice I give, but I don't think that will help anyone. It certainly won't do much to help evolve society into something better than what we have now.
I love to think about this stuff. I agree with the not poking fun part, but I have to confess that it's sometimes so hard for me to understand why there are so many people who are so willing to suspend their disbelief about the existence of a supernatural being can't manage to make the leap of, logic (it's own kind of faith) that goes along with this theory.
I'm no expert, but let me see if I can help to clarify principle #2.
It's all a matter of chance.
First, recall if you will, that genes rarely have a 1:1 correspondence to a particular feature. Rather, they control things like the timing and quality of proteins constructed. Think legos- flipping a switch on the machine causes it to make all blue ones or just two hole ones. Those legos can go on to be a part of the awesome Indiana Jones set I got to play with yesterday or the basic play pack. It's true that most mutations are less likely to result in a viable offspring, they are also likely to happen all the time. I mean, if you look at the development of the first few days of life and all of the chances for it to go wrong, you have to wonder that any of us survived at all. (Introduce a bunch of teratogens and it's looking even bleaker.)
I believe that Trisomy 21 (Down's syndrome) is an example of having a different number of chromosomes. While that "mutation" results in challenges to functioning, those challenges are such that both survival and mating are very much possible.
The problem stems from the fact that natural selection is in the eye of the beholder... It's hard for us to imagine that we are not the penultimate species by which all other species should be judged. This is simply not the case... we're just really lucky. If you take Trisomy 21 as an example, this is a mutation that may not be ideally suited for present day earth, but can you imagine that, had the demands of the environment been different than what they are, that this mutation might be viewed as having some sort of advantage? Then, natural selection steps in, does it's thing, and before long, we've got a new species.
If the initial cause of the mutation was related to the shape and timing of proteins that split or replicate chromosomes, then it's really not difficult to imagine that it's possible to come up with other similar variations in number, in time.
It's all a matter of chance. Coming in to being at the right place and the right time. It's the same question about life on Earth- why did it happen here? Because it did.
But not in 5000 years.
Man, I gotta get me one of those awesome lego-making machines like you have. (Seriously, though, that's a cool analogy. Thank you for chiming in with some data and metaphors I hadn't considered.)
I do spend a lot of time with legos.
Believe me when I say that I love to think about this stuff... I guess where some take comfort in believing that everything happens just as it should, as a part of Someone-or-another's great plan, I take comfort in knowing that everything happens just exactly as it does.
Godfuckingdammit!
I spent way too much of my youth getting picked on by ignorant morons for being a geek and a freak. Now that I've achieved a modest level of success thanks to my knowledge both of the arts and actual fucking math and science I want to make fun of those idiots with their fucking Jesus fish on the backs of their fucking SUVs they can't afford.
Fuck them and their stupid fucking superstitions.
...
Um... Shit, That sounds pretty bitter, doesn't it? It's not like I run around getting all up in their faces, but I still reserve the right to have a good laugh at their expense when creationists do or say something stupid, which happens with alarming frequency.
Oh, and I'm really enjoying having kids around to justify purchasing more Lego sets.
Um... Shit, That sounds pretty bitter, doesn't it?
Just a little.
I do spend a lot of time with legos.
Believe me when I say that I love to think about this stuff...
Who doesn't love to think about Legos? Legos kick little plastic ass!
I reserve the right to make fun of them. There was a time in my life when I carried a Bible even to school, could be found at church 2-3 days a week and considered going to seminary. My first step in the process was to start reading the Bible. How can anyone maintain their faith after reading even a quarter of that god damned book?
But perhaps I am a rat bastard for wanting to make fun of Chrispies. We all know it is totally not cool to make fun of the Downs Syndrome kids. Perhaps I could try to avoid eye contact with them in public while trying to be nice but secretly feeling extremely uncomfortable in their presence and hoping I don't have to interact with them. Oh wait, that is what I do. At least no one claims that the retards hold a monopoly on intelligence.
I think we can all agree that everyone loves legos:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
http://www.reasonablyclever.com/lego/fsm/
FUCK MEGABLOCKS!
They're the Intelligent Design of interlocking plastic bricks!
Nice way to bring Megablocks into the fold!
Portions of the arguments others offered in this thread now make far greater sense to me.
My biology teacher from the Norwood / Young America school district LIED, and it seriously crippled my understanding of biology and evolution. What a jerk.
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