I said this elsewhere today, and to you a week ago.
If you don't vote, you're letting them win without going to any trouble or risk
If you vote, then they have to break the law to nullify your voice.
Every time they do that, there's a chance someone will slip up or squeal.
The point of a post like this one is to start putting pressure on the system. No doubt voterfraud and fixed elections have been going on for a long time. All through the 90's the danger was there, and probably was happening, but the media ignored it.
Our job, as citizens who don't want to live in Mark Antony's Rome or Hitler's Germany, is to keep shining the spotlight on the ugliest parts of the corruption.
By all means we should be pointing out these problems with the voting system. If I didn't think so I wouldn't be doing it myself. Everyone who votes expects their vote to actually count. Is it my job as a citizen to do this?
I am a citizen by birth, not necessarily by choice. As an individual I want to make my own decisions. Government, be it imposed, elected or stolen, gets in the way of that. My job as an individual is to help people get over the crutch of government. We need to evolve to the point where government is not needed.
We've been walking around with leg braces for so long that nobody thinks they can stand without them.
Forcing government on anarchists is no better than forcing religion on atheists.
But for those who choose to have a government I'd hope they would choose to have one where they can vote and have it counted. Some people might choose to live under a sovereign. Whatever floats your boat, baby.
I did not actually say voting was a job of every citizen.
I said it was a job of every citizen who'd prefer to not live in Antony's Rome or Hitler's Germany.
There's a big distinction there.
You're absolutely right though, I was a little too high-horse. Everyone is free to choose not to vote. I just hope they make that decision in full awareness of the consequences.
Just the same, a job that comes up only once a year (or every few years), and takes only a couple hours, is something even a slacker like myself can find the time for. And I'm a "kept man" who's real job is telecommuting 5 hours a week.
I acknowledge this. You said it was the job of citizens to shine the light on corruption. Which I conditionally agree with. The condition being that most people don't have a real choice in citizenship and usually have to cope with the circumstances available as best they can.
But now your response switches gears to where it seems that you are stating that it is the job of citizens who don't want to live in said dictatorial style regimes to vote. Perhaps that was my fault due to the ordering of my phrases in the first paragraph of my last post. All apologies for any confusion. But I will maintain that it is not anyone's job or duty to vote. It is a privilege that I choose to waive because I steadfastly believe that while humans are seemingly incapable of running their own affairs and minding their own business at present, it is something we should all aspire to. If we keep saying, "I know I can, but that other guy..." then we fall into a vicious trap of reliance on systems of power which, as history has repeatedly shown, will draw in shysters with the desire to manipulate and abuse that power.
Apology accepted, though I don't think it was necessary - I'm always confused, and misunderstanding caused by something you said only makes that marginally worse. :)
I suspect the shysters you referenced will be an obstacle we must face with or without government. I openly admit, I like the idea that if said shyster took me for all I was worth, there's a chance the government might choose to penalize him, thereby absolving me from the need to break my vows of peace.
In order for anarchy to function with minimal mayhem, you must first ensure all your neighbors are possessed of friendly spirit and/or raised to respect their neighbors. If you have any ideas on how to ensure such, please share them. In my experience, most people are immature/greedy/violent/untrustworthy, yet I completely agree that legislating morality rarely ends (or even starts) well.
The fact remains that the past 231.5 years represent a high-water mark for freedom in the history of mankind - and that pond of liberty is now in danger of flowing down the drain into the sewers the neocons (and their aspiring-fascist leadership) have dug beneath our feet.
Prehistory may have had it better, but I don't have any ideas how we as a people might climb back into that collective womb. Modern attempts at living without law have not developed happily, or at least that's what I gleaned from all those books about frontierism and the old west.
Thanks for speaking your mind. I hold your opinions and ideas in high esteem.
6 comments:
I understand that heroin is often cut with some pretty nasty chemicals.
My solution is to avoid using heroin.
I said this elsewhere today, and to you a week ago.
If you don't vote, you're letting them win without going to any trouble or risk
If you vote, then they have to break the law to nullify your voice.
Every time they do that, there's a chance someone will slip up or squeal.
The point of a post like this one is to start putting pressure on the system. No doubt voterfraud and fixed elections have been going on for a long time. All through the 90's the danger was there, and probably was happening, but the media ignored it.
Our job, as citizens who don't want to live in Mark Antony's Rome or Hitler's Germany, is to keep shining the spotlight on the ugliest parts of the corruption.
By all means we should be pointing out these problems with the voting system. If I didn't think so I wouldn't be doing it myself. Everyone who votes expects their vote to actually count. Is it my job as a citizen to do this?
I am a citizen by birth, not necessarily by choice. As an individual I want to make my own decisions. Government, be it imposed, elected or stolen, gets in the way of that. My job as an individual is to help people get over the crutch of government. We need to evolve to the point where government is not needed.
We've been walking around with leg braces for so long that nobody thinks they can stand without them.
Forcing government on anarchists is no better than forcing religion on atheists.
But for those who choose to have a government I'd hope they would choose to have one where they can vote and have it counted. Some people might choose to live under a sovereign. Whatever floats your boat, baby.
I did not actually say voting was a job of every citizen.
I said it was a job of every citizen who'd prefer to not live in Antony's Rome or Hitler's Germany.
There's a big distinction there.
You're absolutely right though, I was a little too high-horse. Everyone is free to choose not to vote. I just hope they make that decision in full awareness of the consequences.
Just the same, a job that comes up only once a year (or every few years), and takes only a couple hours, is something even a slacker like myself can find the time for. And I'm a "kept man" who's real job is telecommuting 5 hours a week.
I acknowledge this. You said it was the job of citizens to shine the light on corruption. Which I conditionally agree with. The condition being that most people don't have a real choice in citizenship and usually have to cope with the circumstances available as best they can.
But now your response switches gears to where it seems that you are stating that it is the job of citizens who don't want to live in said dictatorial style regimes to vote. Perhaps that was my fault due to the ordering of my phrases in the first paragraph of my last post. All apologies for any confusion. But I will maintain that it is not anyone's job or duty to vote. It is a privilege that I choose to waive because I steadfastly believe that while humans are seemingly incapable of running their own affairs and minding their own business at present, it is something we should all aspire to. If we keep saying, "I know I can, but that other guy..." then we fall into a vicious trap of reliance on systems of power which, as history has repeatedly shown, will draw in shysters with the desire to manipulate and abuse that power.
But I might be wrong.
Dude, you fuckin' rock.
Apology accepted, though I don't think it was necessary - I'm always confused, and misunderstanding caused by something you said only makes that marginally worse. :)
I suspect the shysters you referenced will be an obstacle we must face with or without government. I openly admit, I like the idea that if said shyster took me for all I was worth, there's a chance the government might choose to penalize him, thereby absolving me from the need to break my vows of peace.
In order for anarchy to function with minimal mayhem, you must first ensure all your neighbors are possessed of friendly spirit and/or raised to respect their neighbors. If you have any ideas on how to ensure such, please share them. In my experience, most people are immature/greedy/violent/untrustworthy, yet I completely agree that legislating morality rarely ends (or even starts) well.
The fact remains that the past 231.5 years represent a high-water mark for freedom in the history of mankind - and that pond of liberty is now in danger of flowing down the drain into the sewers the neocons (and their aspiring-fascist leadership) have dug beneath our feet.
Prehistory may have had it better, but I don't have any ideas how we as a people might climb back into that collective womb. Modern attempts at living without law have not developed happily, or at least that's what I gleaned from all those books about frontierism and the old west.
Thanks for speaking your mind. I hold your opinions and ideas in high esteem.
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