I know that sounds like the set-up to some sort of sarcastic joke, but I'm serious.
If you'd asked me to define Integrity, I'd have said it meant "doing the right thing, even if it's unpopular" or "doing the right thing, even if there's advantage to be gained by disregarding your moral compass." I saw it as 100% commendable in all situations.
Earlier today, (in an argument about a game mechanic in the Scion RPG called "Integrity") it was pointed out to me that I have been at least partially misunderstanding the word. (A misunderstanding which lead to my house-ruling some things that, in retrospect, didn't need it.)
SPACKlik wrote:
"That isn't what it means at all in english. It means strength or toughness either of an object or mind. How well something sticks to constructs, regardless of goodness or badness"and Fougerec chimed in:
" Main Entry: in·teg·ri·tyIn effect, I've been applying extra baggage to the word (at least in terms of scope and emphasis). Baggage and meaning that isn't always guaranteed to be intended. All those times I've heard some politician or artist talk about their Integrity, they may have meant something entirely different than I took them to mean. There's a subtle nuance that I was missing (or rather, that I was projecting/imagining).
Pronunciation: \in-ˈte-grə-tē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
Date: 14th century
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility
2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness
So it could be used in multiple ways. I think r_b was using meaning #1 but using conventional morality as the code to keep by, thus less savory characters need not apply. I read the skill to use meaning #1, but in reference to the character's own sense of self which is why it defends against meanipulative attemtps [in the game]."
If all Integrity means is "standing your ground" and being resistant to change, it's not such a great thing to aspire to, in and of itself. You could be morally bankrupt, yet still have Integrity. 'Integrity' is much closer to 'Stubbornness' and 'Traditional' than I'd been imagining it to be.
I can think of a specific conversation I once had with Lance (14 to 18 months ago), where I now realize he didn't understand what I was saying because that critical word meant something different to him. "At least you still have your Integrity" isn't necessarily something to be proud of, it's almost condescending and mocking in some circumstances. Have I been coming off as a jerk when I meant to be applauding someone?
6 comments:
Interestingly, it is not a word I use much (excepting the computation meaning, such as "referential integrity", which of course is part of programming jargon, so I use it). I don't have a very positive connotation with it. ...To me, it implies rigidity, and I value fluidity/agility far and away more than consistency.
That said, I was nodding when I read your definition of the word... I thought it implied doing the right thing... though, to my mind, it can mean a stupid thing. A captain going down with his ship, for example.
I stopped nodding when you said "100% commendable in all situations," of course. ;)
I associate it with leaders and politicians. And I suppose I'm anti-establishment enough to think those aren't usually good things. ; )
Oooh, I Just realized:
To my mind, integrity == honor.
...Honor isn't always a good thing, for my money. Just ask Prince Zuko.
(Oh, c'mon, PLEASE tell me you're a fan of the last Airbender...)
I also just realized that I typed "==".
This is a programming thing.
"This = That" means something very different from "This == That". The former means "I set the value to". It forces the issue. The Latter is a test of equivalence, and will either return true or false.
[shrug]
Not sure why that was worth explaining. Maybe I just felt like typing in the stupid word verification again. ("bvicmz", by the way. Cause that was really important to say, too.)
Really, shutting up now.
I'm humbled by my own lack of knowledge of programing and airbending. :(
As a machinist when I talk about integrity, I am referring to the ability of a part to perform its function. It is often the opposite of stressed, fatigued, flawed, scrap, or just plain worn out. When something loses its integrity, we either have to build it back up, or throw it out and replace it.
If you apply that understanding of the word to interpersonal relations, you probably weren't too far off in your initial understanding.
Just trying to further confuse things.
Ahhh, do yourself a favor and watch Avatar: The Last Airbender.
It's very Miyazaki-esque. Miyazakian?
My impression of it was that it was the next Star Wars.
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